Comments on: Saturday column: Hopelessly Lost in Lisbon

By: Orwelle

Orwelle — Mon, 19 May 2008 16:49:06 +0000

Hello
My message will be short because I do not speak English very well. I just want to inform you that the Frenchmen & women count on you and your vote of June pass to save peoples of Europe, that were not consulted or which vote has been despised. Please, do not let the traders and law of benefit oppress us with an anti-democratic treaty. You are our last chance to live in democracy.
Thank you in advance for your help !

A useful site :
http://etienne.chouard.free.fr/Europe/Traductions/BadConstitutionWhichRevealsACcancerInOurDemocracy.htm

By: Bolg

Bolg — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 19:43:38 +0000

That’s a pretty facile comment Martha. You can’t mean it.

By: Martha

Martha — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:15:35 +0000

If Bertie is so keen for a Yes vote, then you can be sure that the Lisbon Treaty is not in the best interests of the people.

By: Dan Sullivan

Dan Sullivan — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 13:59:02 +0000

You had me at “His Majesty the King”.

By: emordino

emordino — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 09:38:02 +0000

@Bolg: From what I’ve seen, the people who have been against it from the start are basing their opposition on the idea that the treaty is designed to remove national sovereignty and deliver an EU superstate into the hands of an oppressive minority. In other words, they’re not the kind of people who trust representative bodies in the first place.

On the other hand, the fact that these bodies are for the treaty doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ve read and understood it. If the government would give people concrete reasons to vote yes as opposed to just assuming everyone’s on their side (a la the original Nice referendum), I think they’d do a lot better.

By: Bolg

Bolg — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 20:41:37 +0000

I sought out the blog version of this article to make John’s point - the consolidated text post-Lisbon is available easily if people actually wanted to read it. Ulick McEvaddy’s only point seems to be that it’s unintelligble - a particularly stupid point. For example, could most people fully understand the Taxes Consolidation Act, the Copyright & Related Rights Act or a Finance Act? Probably not, but that doesn’t make them bad law. I think Rossa Fanning made a similar point recently in the Times. Morever, we don’t all vote on every piece of legislation introduced by the Government, even when significant and constitutionally dubious (e.g. McDowell’s Criminal Justice Amendment Act).

I got the Libertas leaflet in the post the other day and it is laughable, genuinely like it was written by comedians. Whatever arguments there are against the Libson Treaty, they are not capable of articulating them.

Shouldn’t most citizens be entitled not to read the whole thing and to trust the judgment of whomever they usually agree with - e.g. Fianna Fáil, Fiann Gael, the Labour and Green parties, IBEC, the trades unions, etc. etc.? If almost every representative body in the country is pro-Lisbon, and those bodies are aware of what it is about, why are so many people against it?

By: John

John — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 10:13:48 +0000

If the Government was to keep us fully informed, it would require a number of postal trucks to rival the D-Day fleet.

In fairness, things aren’t that bad. The consolidate version of the Treaties - i.e. how the Treaties will read if Lisbon is passed are available in Irish and English from the link below:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/showPage.asp?lang=en&id=1296&mode=g&name=

I woulsn’t be quite sure if the Libertas spokesperson has read the Treaty, judging on the ‘drivel’ they have been spouting about Corporation Tax and other issues.

By: Green Ink

Green Ink — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 09:36:25 +0000

Sorry Shane you lost me at “Every once in a while”.

By: Eric Wahlrab

Eric Wahlrab — Sat, 26 Apr 2008 08:50:43 +0000

it doesn’t matter whether we say yes or no, lisbon has to pass, the government, because of the system of governance in place in europe at the moment, will be forced to eventually come up with a yes vote.