What do you do when you’re in a hole?
Usually you stop digging, but there are exceptions. Like the dude at the centre of this tale
I posted earlier today about Nialler9’s account of what happened when he went do a bit of work at Tripod the other night. Readers might want to check back on Nialler’s post because one of the Nokia dudes has got in touch and he just doesn’t seem to know what to do with his shovel. Comments 19 on are particularly good.
Mmmm, I wonder if it’s time for Mulley to take an interest. And UnaRocks. And The Chancer. And Sinead. And Nadine. And Rick. I mean, Nokia Trends Lab DO want publicity….
Am singing an Alice in Chains song.
Comment by Damien Mulley | November 24, 2007 at 3:03 amDone. God bless Bill Hicks.
Comment by Sinead | November 24, 2007 at 12:29 pmdon’t push him too far, his hair is done professionally after all..
- leigh
Comment by Leigh O'Gorman | November 24, 2007 at 1:35 pmSound like Nialler9 needs to up his game.
I don’t know what the fuss is about it was a Nokia gig so you expect this type of ‘morketing activity’ Ironically, I recent had a presentation from the folks who provide some of the interactive services telling me how cool it is and now I get t read about it from the punter in the crowds perspective.
Comment by Brian | November 24, 2007 at 4:02 pmSound like Nialler9 needs to up his game.
obviously a corporate apologist like Brian did not bother to read the post which kicked all this off.
Nialler turned up to do a job for one of the bands on the bill and was treated badly by the Nokia Trends Lab people. He wrote about it and then one of the Nokia people came onboard and started making personal comments and throwing his weight around. Nialler responded.
The “fuss” is to do with the amount of stupid branding which Nokia and their ilk throw around at gigs (as if their sponsorship allows them to own the event AND the bands AND everyone who happens to be working there) and about how readers of this and other blogs - the target audience for these brands, after all - are responding.
Fair play to Nialler9 for actually writing about this - and to jim and other bloggers for picking up the story.
Comment by Eddie | November 24, 2007 at 4:16 pmIt never ceases to amuse me how people can make complete and utter c***s of themselves on the internet.
Go Nialler.
Comment by Twenty Major | November 24, 2007 at 7:10 pmobviously a corporate apologist like Brian did not bother to read the post which kicked all this off.
Nialler turned up to do a job for one of the bands on the bill and was treated badly by the Nokia Trends Lab people. He wrote about it and then one of the Nokia people came onboard and started making personal comments and throwing his weight around. Nialler responded.
The “fuss” is to do with the amount of stupid branding which Nokia and their ilk throw around at gigs (as if their sponsorship allows them to own the event AND the bands AND everyone who happens to be working there) and about how readers of this and other blogs - the target audience for these brands, after all - are responding.
Fair play to Nialler9 for actually writing about this - and to jim and other bloggers for picking up the story.
A corporate apologist? This was a corporate gig, plain and simple. Let’s not be any other illusions. Nokia paid, probably the POD, to book this band to perform as a promotion for the products. And yes it does allow them to do what they like.
in any case, I wasn’t there so the nokia chaps account is as valid as niallers. The Nokia guy had every right to throw his weight around, it’s his gig. I’ve seen this before where bands come up with some AV requirement at the last minute and expect to be accomodated.
Comment by Brian | November 24, 2007 at 7:35 pmI’ve seen this before where bands come up with some AV requirement at the last minute and expect to be accomodated.
Brian - if you read Nialler’s post, you will see that he turned up THREE HOURS before the doors opened for the show. I wouldn’t call that ‘last minute’
Comment by Jim Carroll | November 25, 2007 at 5:17 pmJust to add on the flipside.
if i get into a venue at anyhwere between 8am-9am set-up and do my thing and a “vidiot” as people who do visuals/eyecandy are commonly called show’s up at three or four in the afternoon as they mostly do i’m never surprised as most part-timers seem to have an uncommon knack for being late,not communicating what they want to do with anyone else other than the trusty laptop they bring with them and seem incapable of being able to ask for anything technical prior to the event by either e-mail,phone,pigeon post.
Then the of course is the usual battle between lighting,Stage Manager,Band and artist as how to now incorprate said visualist into the day’s proceedings as everyone has been finished hours ago.
This is a generalisation and not speciifc to nialler but to all people who show up late having not done any advance and then wondering why people aren’t really that bothered about the fantastic work he has done and how great it’s going to work with the show.
Maybe not late but not early in the bigger picture
Comment by cj | November 25, 2007 at 6:59 pmIf the geeks are united…
Comment by OneForTheRoad | November 25, 2007 at 8:29 pmis that tim redfern niall is talking about?
Comment by Anthony Remedy | November 26, 2007 at 12:30 amI did enjoy reading that — blog spat of the year — but both of them still looked pretty silly to me…
“It was two hours dude”, “no it wasn’t man”, “yes, it was!”
Now Jim says its three!
Comment by Teddy | November 26, 2007 at 8:57 amJim, can you make us some ‘Team Nialler’ t-shirts?
Comment by UnaRocks | November 26, 2007 at 12:38 pmGo on Nialler!
Comment by I Prefer The Obscure Remix | November 26, 2007 at 12:42 pmIt’s difficult for any support band at a show like this. You’ll generally get pushed around, as the over-riding feeling is that they are doing you a massive favour by giving you this once in a lifetime big break. The fact is, support acts are generally treated like dirt, especially when shows start getting to this size. If you add an over-zealous brand and marketing dept. into the equation, things can only get worse.
The branding of shows is only going to get worse I feel. Promoters have to find better ways of securing acts, to get them onto their books. The weight of Nokia money behind a promoter’s bid will generally secure that act, and take it away from the clasp of independent promoters, or rival promoters. That’s life unfortunately, it sucks.
Some promoters are now able to offer better fees to bands/agents because of this, and if the band has issues with playing a branded gig, they are generally reminded that these people are running/booking the festivals in Ireland. Any band looking to get ahead, who need the money, will probably find it very hard to turn down a gig of this nature. Bands return to these shores quite regularly, moving up to larger venues and appearing on festival line-ups. We see it happening over and over again. I imagine booking agents love hearing from Irish promoters at the moment. But it’s a real shame that the consumer then has to put up with this corporate invasion of their private social life.
As for Brian’s last comment.
Why shouldn’t a band on the bill expect to be accomodated? They are on the bill, providing the entertainment! And it wasn’t ‘last minute’, how many people have said so already.
‘A corporate apologist? This was a corporate gig, plain and simple. Let’s not be any other illusions. [sic] Nokia paid, probably the POD, to book this band to perform as a promotion for the products. And yes it does allow them to do what they like.’
I wonder if that’s how it really happened. Did Nokia really pay Of Montreal and Go! Team, to pick 2 examples, to come and perform on their behalf? Or were those bands going to be coming to the POD complex anyway, and POD just got a bit of bonus cash from Nokia to reduce the ticket prices? there’s a bit of a difference.
Comment by Justin | November 26, 2007 at 12:47 pmJim I came to this squabble late - did you have to take the original comments down or is my computer playing tricks on me?!
Comment by Colin | November 26, 2007 at 2:54 pmcolin - my original post is here - http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/ontherecord/2007/11/23/how-not-to-brand-a-gig/ - and nialler’s post is here - http://www.nialler9.com/blog/2007/11/22/the-go-team-cadence-weapon-and-the-marketing-sharks/#comments
Comment by Jim Carroll | November 26, 2007 at 2:56 pmCheers Jim I thought the comments were on your post as opposed to Nialler’s, whatever about the argument between Nall and the ponytailed muppet it definitely brings the whole issue of the “quality” of security at gigs back into the frame. There’s an article in there Jim!
Comment by Colin | November 26, 2007 at 3:12 pm“I’ve seen this before where bands come up with some AV requirement at the last minute and expect to be accomodated.”
I’ve tried to keep out of this but I’d like to clarify one thing for the record. Brian, I’m sorry but mails were sent days in advance of the gig to relevant people notifying them of nialler’s visuals - FACT. Also true, Nialler was at the venue from around 4/4.30pm. Sorry again, but with all due respects I’m afraid you’re wrong in your assumption.
Comment by Mike | November 27, 2007 at 12:59 amSorry to sort of break away from the thread of the argument here. But I have to say, that Nialler in his original post showed the most beautiful economy of description when he referred to the Nokia guy as “a pony tailed smarmite”. Now, I haven’t seen the fella, but from those four words, I have the most crystal visual image of him in my head, right down to the way he tucks his t shirt into his jeans. I betya I could pick the fucker out from a police line-up!
Comment by gardenhead | November 27, 2007 at 2:05 am“The Nokia guy had every right to throw his weight around, it’s his gig”
No, it was actually The Go Team/Cadence Weapon/Super Extra Bonus Party’s gig. Well, that was why I and loads of other people bought tickets. We didn’t buy them for a Nokia love-in.
It is stinking attitudes like this guy Brian above which should make everyone highly suspicious of what happens when brands approach bands.
Comment by RenRen | November 27, 2007 at 9:30 amThose comments from Brian take the biscuit - he wasn’t even at the show yet he claims Nialler was late (he wasn’t) and that everyone should stay quiet because it was a Nokia gig. What an idiot.
Comment by Edel | November 27, 2007 at 9:51 amMaybe Brian is the “pony tailed smarmite” from Nialler’s post?
Comment by Red Matty | November 27, 2007 at 9:53 amBrian - if you read Nialler’s post, you will see that he turned up THREE HOURS before the doors opened for the show. I wouldn’t call that ‘last minute’
Jim - 3 hours before a gig is not adequate time. Especially if its an event with complex visuals etc.
No, it was actually The Go Team/Cadence Weapon/Super Extra Bonus Party’s gig. Well, that was why I and loads of other people bought tickets. We didn’t buy them for a Nokia love-in.
It is stinking attitudes like this guy Brian above which should make everyone highly suspicious of what happens when brands approach bands.
I wasnt at the gig but I do recall seeing a poster advert for the event and it was clearly under the Nokia Trend Labs banner. In any case, given that there seems to be less sold out gigs than before, I would imagine that we will see more of it in order to sustain the amount of live music that we are currently enjoying.
Those comments from Brian take the biscuit - he wasn’t even at the show yet he claims Nialler was late (he wasn’t) and that everyone should stay quiet because it was a Nokia gig. What an idiot.
I am purely commenting on the thread the Jim linked to in his original post and having experienced this type of lastminute.com behaviour from AV people that come with the band. Nor did I say that anyone should stay quiet on the topic.
It is hillarious about bloggers - it appears that not only can they do no wrong but once they blog it, it must be true.
Comment by Brian | November 27, 2007 at 2:03 pmYep, Brian is definitely the “pony tailed smarmite”.
I love Brian’s line about “It is hillarious about bloggers - it appears that not only can they do no wrong but once they blog it, it must be true”. Given the amount of comments he’s made here, he’s giving bloggers a lot more credence than he thinks they deserve.
Bet he works for Nokia or some company who want Nokia cash so, so, so badly that they’ll do anything for it.
Brian baby, what are your vested interests? Or maybe we should get Jim to reveal your IP address? That would be interesting, I’d say.
Comment by Sock It To Me | November 27, 2007 at 3:01 pmSock It To Me - jim will be doing no such thing
Comment by Jim Carroll | November 27, 2007 at 3:04 pm“having experienced this type of lastminute.com behaviour from AV people that come with the band”
Sorry Brian, just to reiterate it in case you missed my comment number 19 above…
“I’ve seen this before where bands come up with some AV requirement at the last minute and expect to be accomodated.”
I’ve tried to keep out of this but I’d like to clarify one thing for the record. Brian, I’m sorry but mails were sent days in advance of the gig to relevant people notifying them of nialler’s visuals - FACT. Also true, Nialler was at the venue from around 4/4.30pm. Sorry again, but with all due respects I’m afraid you’re wrong in your assumption.
Comment by Mike | November 27, 2007 at 3:40 pmComment by Mike | November 27, 2007 at 12:59 am
Jim, is there an easy way of putting things in italics? I keep getting confused with what’s a quote/refernce to other post/etc and what’s not.
Comment by Hot Lunch | November 27, 2007 at 5:26 pmLuncher - this is where my technical incompetence comes into play, When I write down the instruction, it italicises the whole sentence which is not great!
Go here - http://en.forums.wordpress.com/topic.php?id=6129&page - and follow the instructions. Just make sure you use BOTH open and close tags.
I’m sure someone else has a better way of explaining this!
Comment by Jim Carroll | November 27, 2007 at 5:46 pmall this fuss over a dude doing visuals for a support band no bothered leaving the bar to see?
Comment by cranky | November 27, 2007 at 7:29 pmDone Jim!
I was there too, my brother foolishly decided to enter a text competition they were running. I don’t know how much it cost but he “won” and was sent a text to pick up his prize from a promotions girl.
She gave him? A t-shirt and one of those things you put around your neck and attach a laminate to.
Sweet.
Actually speaking of that there were limitless and very nice jelly beans on hand on the night so it wasn’t all bad
Comment by Rick | November 28, 2007 at 12:02 amgas, there are such bigger issues we could be discussing than how some unfortunate blogger/visuals guy was treated badly by a marketing/branding goon. Nialler is a nice guy I’m sure but pre-gig time is stressful for everyone. Some people don’t know how to deal with it…. Let’s move on.
Comment by Will.I.aint | November 28, 2007 at 1:54 pmI dont see what all the fuss is. Nobody (Nokia guy or mistreated guy) behaved in a way which warranted being locked up or blogged down. Let it go guys, let it go.
Comment by jayo | February 1, 2008 at 11:13 amJ